Quarterback: Gardner Minshew? Aidan O’Connell? Ken Stabler? (No. 29 overall)
I guess the starting answer, as of right now, is Gardner Minshew who’s on his fourth team in six seasons. I figure at this point the guy has a 1-800-MINSHEW number that teams can easily call when they need a starter.
Just wanted to add a quick note about Bo Nix and how some statistics can be misleading. As a
Ducks fan for many year I can attest to the fact that our offense is not, as some believe, an Air Raid or spread passing offense. Since the days of Chip Kelly, the Ducks have typically been at the top or near the top of the Pac-12 season team rushing statistics. Yes, Bo threw a lot of passes at or behind the line of scrimmage, including bubble screens, RPOs and swing passes to running backs. But he threw a fair share of deep passes as well and threw them quite well. His last year at Oregon he threw 45 touchdown passes against 3 interceptions and averaged 9..6 yards per pass attempt. In that last season, 13 of those touchdowns were 20 yards or more, 16 were from 10-19 yards out and the other 16 were from 9 yards or less. Will he be a good pro? I don't know. But that last college season was the stuff or legends.
I think the defense was good enough last season to get the Chiefs roster to the playoffs with an average QB. And it should be said that Reid and Alex Smith got the Chiefs to the playoffs four times in five years, though those teams had guys like Jamaal Charles, Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, and Justin Houston who were either gone or in their final season and diminished when Mahomes took over.
Random Chiefs take because I saw the stat this morning that Worthy was the second Chiefs rookie to score two TD's in his first NFL game, joining Kareem Hunt. If Hunt didn't have his off-field incident that got him run out of KC, I think he would be considered a sure-fire Hall of Famer. He would have been the Marshall Faulk of the Mahomes-era Chiefs - rushing title in 2017 as a rookie. The 2018 offense was unbelievable until his suspension and struggled down the stretch. I think the Chiefs would likely have won the 2018 Super Bowl with Hunt. Obviously, we'll never know, but those 10 games or so from 2018 when Mahomes was starting before Hunt left were up there with the Moss/Brady Patriots and the 2013 Broncos.
I don't wish injuries on any player, let alone an all-time great like Rodgers. But playing his home games on that turf makes it hard for me to believe that Rodgers (or Tyron Smith, Mike Williams, ...) will be able to stay healthy enough to truly compete, even with an excellent defense.
I remember the showtime Lakers and they were something. The Chiefs are a better show, game in, game out. I would say that if I wasn't a fan. When you watch a Chiefs game, you never feel like you have wasted a dollar of your money, or a minute of your time. Even when they lose.
Joe, I forgive you for saying that Beowulf, in which the main character kills one monster by ripping off its arm with his bare hands and then later dies in a fight with a dragon, is boring.
However that may be, I do wonder why anyone thinks it is a good idea to make high school kids read Beowulf or indeed even Shakespeare. The argument is usually 'gotta give them an appreciation for...' but of course it doesn't do that in 95% of cases, it teaches kids that they hate Beowulf and that Shakespeare sucks.
With all the barriers to understanding what is even going on in these stories, I think you have to accept that if people are going to appreciate them, it probably shouldn't be something they're forced to do as teenagers.
Enjoyed as usual, but your BEST EVER vs. GOAT discussion got me thinking. I feel as though we too quickly muddle things and should tag each with an unstated but implied "That I have ever seen". We are willing to make an exception for players we haven't seen provided our father's generation convinced us to go back a little farther than that. Consider: Tom Brady may be BEST EVER or GOAT but the first would likely be on our memories of him working his fourth quarter magic time after time after time and the second based on his record of 7 Super Bowl Rings and a playoff record of 35-13. But what about Quarterback X? He was a record setter from birth, weighing in at an improbable 14 pounds 12 ounces. He went to college on a basketball scholarship. After college he served in the military in WWII. When he finished that service he played a year in the old National Basketball League (one of two to merge and form the NBA soon thereafter). They won the league championship. He then played professional football for a single team for the next ten years. His regular season record was 105-17-4, the highest winning percentage in history. His post season record was 9-3 slightly better than Brady in terms of winning percentage. His team played in the championship game all 10 years, winning 7 championships. 5 time MVP. First team all pro seven times and second string 3 times. His average yards per pass attempt of 9.0 is still comfortably #1 all time.. Mahomes is currently tied for 7th at 7.9 and Tom Brady is tied for 41st at 7.4. Joe knows who quarterback X is as do a few of you Brilliant Readers, but sadly time has dulled most memories of him. Who was quarterback X? Otto Graham.
I blame the cartoon show George of the Jungle. For a while the show ran a companion cartoon about a race car drive named Tom Slick. Tom's nemesis was another driver named Baron Otto Matic. Once you hear that pun, you can't unheard it.
Graham is one of the six best QB’s in history along with Baugh, Unitas, Montana, Manning and Brady (I’m not ready to include Mahomes). I won’t argue with whatever order anyone wants to put them in.
Lawrence has had some receivers and Engram is no slouch as a receiving TE. Zay Jones put up numbers with Derek Carr before going to the Jags. Christian Kirk has been solid. Calvin Ridley seems pretty good. You can come up with arguments against any of them, but are the new guys coming in any more sure? A rookie? Gabe Davis?
If you had an opening for a challenging position you were hiring for and you picked strictly based on who had the best resume, all things considered, that's the GOAT.
Best ever is if you were hiring and trying to decide who you thought would do the best job.
Those different criteria might yield the same person, but probably not.
If you are a fan of the Peanuts comic strip, you will remember that Charlie Brown was always concerned about being the goat; that is, the person responsible for losing the game. That is what I think of every time that phrase is meant to mean someone is great.
I'm with you on that one, as I am sure are many older readers. Probably Joe remembers this as well. The goat was the guy that blew the game for at least two thirds of my life. (Probably more) Then it became and acronym for greatest of all time, and probably no one under 30 remembers it's original meaning.
Yeah, me too. For at least the first 40 years of my life the goat was the guy who choked away the game. Suddenly it meant just about the opposite. As someone who believes acronyms are mostly born out of laziness, I suggest we just say “So and so is the greatest ever.”
Seven of Joe’s top ten quarterbacks are in the AFC, including the top four. That seems about right to me, but I wonder if the teams that don’t have someone who can go toe to toe with Mahomes would be better off looking for some completely different approach to building a team. That’s assuming of course that the rules aren’t so heavily slanted in favor of passing to make that impossible.
For me football is more interesting when you have great teams with contrasting styles.
I’d say the only real contrasting style these days is do you have a qb who can both run and throw versus throw only. They’ve just made the rules for promoting passing so strong.
Best excerpt here:
No. 3: Las Vegas Raiders (6-11)
Quarterback: Gardner Minshew? Aidan O’Connell? Ken Stabler? (No. 29 overall)
I guess the starting answer, as of right now, is Gardner Minshew who’s on his fourth team in six seasons. I figure at this point the guy has a 1-800-MINSHEW number that teams can easily call when they need a starter.
Minshew has an awesome mustache.
Best ever vs GOAT Explanation brilliant
Insightful with Joe's personal musings that are refreshing!!
Just wanted to add a quick note about Bo Nix and how some statistics can be misleading. As a
Ducks fan for many year I can attest to the fact that our offense is not, as some believe, an Air Raid or spread passing offense. Since the days of Chip Kelly, the Ducks have typically been at the top or near the top of the Pac-12 season team rushing statistics. Yes, Bo threw a lot of passes at or behind the line of scrimmage, including bubble screens, RPOs and swing passes to running backs. But he threw a fair share of deep passes as well and threw them quite well. His last year at Oregon he threw 45 touchdown passes against 3 interceptions and averaged 9..6 yards per pass attempt. In that last season, 13 of those touchdowns were 20 yards or more, 16 were from 10-19 yards out and the other 16 were from 9 yards or less. Will he be a good pro? I don't know. But that last college season was the stuff or legends.
1-800-MINSHEW
Hilarious.
* The earth's layers are quite fascinating and still a big mystery. It's not too late!.
I think the defense was good enough last season to get the Chiefs roster to the playoffs with an average QB. And it should be said that Reid and Alex Smith got the Chiefs to the playoffs four times in five years, though those teams had guys like Jamaal Charles, Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, and Justin Houston who were either gone or in their final season and diminished when Mahomes took over.
Random Chiefs take because I saw the stat this morning that Worthy was the second Chiefs rookie to score two TD's in his first NFL game, joining Kareem Hunt. If Hunt didn't have his off-field incident that got him run out of KC, I think he would be considered a sure-fire Hall of Famer. He would have been the Marshall Faulk of the Mahomes-era Chiefs - rushing title in 2017 as a rookie. The 2018 offense was unbelievable until his suspension and struggled down the stretch. I think the Chiefs would likely have won the 2018 Super Bowl with Hunt. Obviously, we'll never know, but those 10 games or so from 2018 when Mahomes was starting before Hunt left were up there with the Moss/Brady Patriots and the 2013 Broncos.
I don't wish injuries on any player, let alone an all-time great like Rodgers. But playing his home games on that turf makes it hard for me to believe that Rodgers (or Tyron Smith, Mike Williams, ...) will be able to stay healthy enough to truly compete, even with an excellent defense.
Good points.
And I really miss watching Jamaal Charles play football.
I remember the showtime Lakers and they were something. The Chiefs are a better show, game in, game out. I would say that if I wasn't a fan. When you watch a Chiefs game, you never feel like you have wasted a dollar of your money, or a minute of your time. Even when they lose.
Joe, I forgive you for saying that Beowulf, in which the main character kills one monster by ripping off its arm with his bare hands and then later dies in a fight with a dragon, is boring.
However that may be, I do wonder why anyone thinks it is a good idea to make high school kids read Beowulf or indeed even Shakespeare. The argument is usually 'gotta give them an appreciation for...' but of course it doesn't do that in 95% of cases, it teaches kids that they hate Beowulf and that Shakespeare sucks.
With all the barriers to understanding what is even going on in these stories, I think you have to accept that if people are going to appreciate them, it probably shouldn't be something they're forced to do as teenagers.
If Beowulf was a comic book kids would love it.
Trevor Lawrence looks like the bad guy from an 80s high school movie.
Enjoyed as usual, but your BEST EVER vs. GOAT discussion got me thinking. I feel as though we too quickly muddle things and should tag each with an unstated but implied "That I have ever seen". We are willing to make an exception for players we haven't seen provided our father's generation convinced us to go back a little farther than that. Consider: Tom Brady may be BEST EVER or GOAT but the first would likely be on our memories of him working his fourth quarter magic time after time after time and the second based on his record of 7 Super Bowl Rings and a playoff record of 35-13. But what about Quarterback X? He was a record setter from birth, weighing in at an improbable 14 pounds 12 ounces. He went to college on a basketball scholarship. After college he served in the military in WWII. When he finished that service he played a year in the old National Basketball League (one of two to merge and form the NBA soon thereafter). They won the league championship. He then played professional football for a single team for the next ten years. His regular season record was 105-17-4, the highest winning percentage in history. His post season record was 9-3 slightly better than Brady in terms of winning percentage. His team played in the championship game all 10 years, winning 7 championships. 5 time MVP. First team all pro seven times and second string 3 times. His average yards per pass attempt of 9.0 is still comfortably #1 all time.. Mahomes is currently tied for 7th at 7.9 and Tom Brady is tied for 41st at 7.4. Joe knows who quarterback X is as do a few of you Brilliant Readers, but sadly time has dulled most memories of him. Who was quarterback X? Otto Graham.
Great stats. He's the GOAT! He's Best Ever!
Why is nobody naming their kid Otto anymore?
I blame the cartoon show George of the Jungle. For a while the show ran a companion cartoon about a race car drive named Tom Slick. Tom's nemesis was another driver named Baron Otto Matic. Once you hear that pun, you can't unheard it.
Graham is one of the six best QB’s in history along with Baugh, Unitas, Montana, Manning and Brady (I’m not ready to include Mahomes). I won’t argue with whatever order anyone wants to put them in.
I'm convinced that by parity, the NFL really means nobody's very good.
Agreed and sadly seems to be the same for mlb.
Lawrence has had some receivers and Engram is no slouch as a receiving TE. Zay Jones put up numbers with Derek Carr before going to the Jags. Christian Kirk has been solid. Calvin Ridley seems pretty good. You can come up with arguments against any of them, but are the new guys coming in any more sure? A rookie? Gabe Davis?
If you had an opening for a challenging position you were hiring for and you picked strictly based on who had the best resume, all things considered, that's the GOAT.
Best ever is if you were hiring and trying to decide who you thought would do the best job.
Those different criteria might yield the same person, but probably not.
If you are a fan of the Peanuts comic strip, you will remember that Charlie Brown was always concerned about being the goat; that is, the person responsible for losing the game. That is what I think of every time that phrase is meant to mean someone is great.
I'm with you on that one, as I am sure are many older readers. Probably Joe remembers this as well. The goat was the guy that blew the game for at least two thirds of my life. (Probably more) Then it became and acronym for greatest of all time, and probably no one under 30 remembers it's original meaning.
Yeah, me too. For at least the first 40 years of my life the goat was the guy who choked away the game. Suddenly it meant just about the opposite. As someone who believes acronyms are mostly born out of laziness, I suggest we just say “So and so is the greatest ever.”
Charlie Brown WAS great!
Seven of Joe’s top ten quarterbacks are in the AFC, including the top four. That seems about right to me, but I wonder if the teams that don’t have someone who can go toe to toe with Mahomes would be better off looking for some completely different approach to building a team. That’s assuming of course that the rules aren’t so heavily slanted in favor of passing to make that impossible.
For me football is more interesting when you have great teams with contrasting styles.
I’d say the only real contrasting style these days is do you have a qb who can both run and throw versus throw only. They’ve just made the rules for promoting passing so strong.